VIDEO: Spartan Football All-Access '16: "Back At It"

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A DECADE OF ANNUAL MICHIGAN SLOGANS

Those chUMps sure know how to keep their own lips flapping, don't they? It's the only fan-base in American sports that always talks smack when they win AND when they lose. Their raison d' etre is to wallow in their own trash-talk.

So it seems like we hear something different from them each year, but it also seems to be about the same each year. Nothing will deter them from the belief that rugby scrimmages in the late 1800s were actually equivalent to the "Football" games played this year.

One the best things that Michigan State Football Coach Mark Dantonio said was, "I find a lot of things they do to be amusing." That pretty much sums it up, right? So we present the annual slogans for Michigan Football for the past ten years, presented here in print as we heard them repeated endlessly over the last decade:

2007:  "It's like when you play your Little brother in the driveway..."

2008:  "We have the best Coach available. He will teach the Big Ten how to play football."

2009:  "Lloyd left the cupboard bare. Just wait till Coach Rodriguez gets his own players."

2010:  "These three years don't count because our coach stinks."

2011:  "Rich Rod left the cupboard bare."

2012:  "We won on a last second field goal! That means it's over for Sparty."

2013:  "The window has closed on the Spartans now that they are in the same division as OHIO and Michigan."

2014:  "The past three years don't count. We had Fred Flintstone as coach."

2015:  "It's over for Sparty! We have the Supreme King as our coach now."

2016:  "We just got another Top Five recruiting class! MSU might have won seven of the last eight games against us, they might have won 11 games in five of the last six seasons, including a Rose Bowl and a Cotton Bowl, they might have won three of the five Big ten Championship games, and qualified for the college football "Final Four"......but now it's definitely over for Sparty!"

The annual slogan for MSU Football under Dantonio:

"Where's the threat?"

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OUR PRE-GAME PREDICTIONS WERE MUCH BETTER THAN MAINSTREAM MEDIA FRENZY

Everybody who works on this web site believes in accountability. We believe that what people say do must be measured-up against a standard of Quality. That's why we created this web site in the first place, to hold the sports media accountable for all of the blather they propagate about their top-crush-of-all-time, the University of Michigan. We offer facts and viewpoints that counter, or even contradict, what we call the Michigan Mainstream Media Machine.

We don't make lots of game predictions here, just once in awhile, and usually only when it's about an MSU vs. UM game. So when we do so, we feel it's our responsibility to report back to you on how we did. And the truth is, this week we did quite well.

We published pre-game viewpoints from "MSUSpartan76", "ATownAndDown", "return2glory", and "SpartanMan82". Everybody, in their own way, called the game a "toss-up", despite the sports media tsunami predicting an overwhelming tidal-wave blowout by UM. Most would agree that a game literally decided on the last play, must have been a "tossup".

Here's a look back at what our authors said before the game was played:


ATownAndDown

• MSU wins by slowing UM ground game. 62 yards rushing and only one run longer than 8 yards.
• MSU wins by pressuring Rudock. Three sacks, two quarterback-hits, and multiple hurried throws by Rudock.
• MSU wins by letting Cook throw the ball. 39 attempts, 328 yards passing.
• Advised against getting into third-and-long situations against UM. 3-12 on third-down.
• CALLED THE GAME A TOSSUP

MSUSpartan76

• UM has a special-teams advantage. Three field-goals, an 80-yard punt, and multiple big kick returns.
• MSU Defense has advantage over UM Offense. Only 62 yards rushing, only 15 completed passes, 25% conversion-rate on 3rd/4th Downs, and only one run longer than 8 yards.
• MSU Offense even with UM Defense. Nearly 400 yards of Total Offense, three touchdowns scored from scrimmage.
• CALLED THE GAME A TOSSUP

SpartanMan82

• UM Defense is over-rated. Gave up 386 yards, 5.4 yards-per-play, and three touchdowns from scrimmage.
• UM Offense has been un-challenged. Only two scoring drives of over 38 yards.
• UM Offense statistically inflated due to running-up scores. 230 total yards, only 4.0 per play. "Good" but not "Great".
• Connor Cook is the key variable. Cook threw for more yards than UM has given up in multiple games combined.
• CALLED THE GAME A TOSSUP

return2glory

• Wondered whether MSU would make it seem to UM like they were going to win, only to rev-it-up at the last second to snatch victory away from them ("little-brother" style). Golly, gee, look what happened at the end!
• Said there was no way Dantonio would mock UM the way that Mike Hart mocked MSU, even if the same thing happened in favor of the Spartans. Dantonio complimented UM multiple times in post-game interviews and never claimed superiority over UM or "intent" to let game go down to the wire.

So while the Michigan Mainstream Media Machine was cranking out stories all week predicting the gloomy end of the Dantonio Era, we were keeping it real with our pre-game views. While crazy chUMps all over the Internet were spewing wild predictions of a vicious bloodbath, we sized up the game as a "toss-up", with either team about as likely to win as the other.

People like to call us "biased" for what we do,

but look at the record in this case.

Who was the "biased media" this week:

DumpTheChumps or the mainstream sports media?

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#BEATchUMps: DANTONIO PULLING OFF THE BIGGEST TRICK PLAY OF ALL TIME?

2007: "I was just laughing. I thought it was funny. (The Spartans) got excited, it's good. Sometimes you get your little brother excited when you're playing basketball and let him get the lead. Then you just come back and take it back." - Mike Hart

Does Michigan State really have Michigan "right where they want them", as stated in this article? Considering the way MSU seems to come out guns ablazing in their games - - - and then goes to sleep - - - and how almost EVERYONE is picking UM to win this game, could it be Mark Dantonio has been playing a little mind game all season long - - - on a bigger scale - - - with ole' Blue-and-Yellow?

2015: Could it be that in the post-game press conference Dantonio says something like this? "I was just laughing. I thought it was funny. (The Wolverines) got excited LEADING UP TO THIS GAME, it's good. Sometimes you get your little brother excited when you're playing basketball and let him get the lead. Then you just come back and take it back."

Not a chance, but I'd like to think the outcome of the game has the same effect without any Spartan having to say even a word.

By the way, Mike Hart has had a change of heart. Awfully big of him aye? Sorry - you can't put that genie back in the bottle.


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MSUSpartan76 RINGS THE BELL ON MICHIGAN STATE FOOTBALL RECRUITING SUCCESS

MSUSpartan76 responds to THIS POST on MSU recruiting, the "star system", and the future of the MSU football program.

On the high school football recruiting ranking system:

I do not buy in on that star rating trash. The recruiting sites are purely for the entertainment of their paying customers and they say as much.

Just an example. In Scout's rating system (1-20-40-120-200) a 5 start top of the class recruit is worth 300 points. A 3 star is worth 40 points. It is beyond any stretch of credibility to state that any single player is worth the same as 7.5 other players yet that is exactly what their rating system says.

As another example, the number 100 player is a 5 star and the number 101 player is a 4 star. 201 points versus 120 points? Nah. The system is too flawed to be meaningful.

Another fallacy of those ranking systems is this. No will ever convince me that a class of 30 3 star recruits is a better class than 20 3 star recruits.

Those stars represent, as the recruiting websites disclaimers state, the assessment of the recruits likelihood to impact a team immediately. A 5 star is assumed to be able to show up, start, and play at a high level without having much practice and very little time with the playbook. A 4 star less so. For the sake of argument, let us assume that premise is correct. The conundrum comes when a player is recruited by a specific team. If he is red-shirted due to a full roster at that position, then he can not contribute immediately and his 5 stars is worthless.

Furthermore, the variable growth development of teenagers is well known. For boys it runs from age 15 to age 25, more or less. Some kids go through their growth spurt early and others later. It is likely that in many cases the difference between a 2 star and a 5 star is 2-3 years of physical growth. In the MSU system, those late bloomers are being developed. There are too many examples of a 2 star freshman who leaves (after 4 years in the program) for the NFL as a 5 star player to deny the value of experience, conditions, practice, and teamwork.

Who is more likely to do a better job getting the right kids to play for a specific team? Is it the 20-25 "recruiting specialists" at Rivals or ESPN who have to evaluate 15,000 high school players in time to meet publication deadlines and whose primary job is to write articles for the paid subscribers? Or, might it be the 10 coaches plus staff members that evaluate and assess 100-250 players looking for specific skill sets that meet the teams unique needs?

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He specifically hits on this statement I presented in the post:

"No more "2-stars", "plan B" guys to fill holes in this class. Soon we will have to talk about the 3-stars going to the NFL from East Lansing. Darn. Consecutive top 5 rankings with recruiting classes between 30-40. What if we have a few years between 10-20? Dantonio does "more with less". Will he do "more with more"? Is it truly "more"? I think he got more plan A guys this year, so I'd say yes, rankings aside."

'76's response:

There is no argument or denial. There are enough examples of going for plan B guys to fill holes that happened in prior years to support that statement. But always with 2 stars? Even if that were true and it is not, Coach Dantonio and his staff have done a superior job of getting the right 2 star recruits.

So, I am not concerned about recruiting class rankings. I am also not concerned about Coach Dantonio and his staff getting the right kids to play ball for them. Retention is high. Off the field issues are low. On the field accomplishments are quite high, too.

Over the past several years we have observed a steady improvement in the recruits. The Spartan recruiting process is winning more of the head-to-head competitions for specific recruits than ever before. More and more often a kid offered by MSU is subsequently pursued by other schools and it's almost as if those pursuits are launched only because the kid has an MSU offer. Word is out. Dantonio and his staff have a superior eye for identifying the talent and "up side" in kids. OSU made an offer to a lowly 3 star recruit only after MSU made an offer.

Expectations, both internal to the program and external, have been elevated. The bar has been raised year by year and now it is as high as it can be set. In the next few years we can expect to see the improvements in recruiting reaching a plateau. I doubt MSU will ever have a No. 1 class for 2 reasons: (1) MSU is not in the SEC and (2) MSU does not offer those kids who feel they have to announce their decisions in front of a TV camera.

The bottom line is this. If MSU continues to have yearly improvements in the quality of their recruiting classes (as defined by the Spartan football program, not Rivals), what can we expect? We can expect the program to continue to strengthen. We can expect to be competitive year after year and winning more and more of those high profile games. We can expect attempts to poach the coaches. We can expect attempts to poach the verbal commits.

Can we expect a national title? Given the program continues to remain stable and the recruiting continues to improve, it becomes more and more likely.

Can we expect respect from the Mainstream Michigan Media Machine (M-4) or those "AA"s from AA? No. But that doesn't matter.

"It isn't over. It will never be over here. It's just starting."

- Coach Mark Dantonio, 2007

Return2Glory:

Again, I'll simply state that while the star system and ranking has it's flaws and inaccuracies, when analyzed over a large sample size there is something to it - - - to a degree. It's certainly not an exact predictor of an individual, but it's far more accurate than throwing darts while blind-folded. I'll throw this out from the previous post: 

"Another misinterpretation of the Dantonio magic with 2 and 3 star recruits is that it "proves" that the star system is a crap-shoot and has no statistical value. Well, MSU is more of an exception on one side of the curve while Ann Arbor U is an example on the opposite side. The truth is that, even under Dantonio (and in Ann Arbor), 5-stars do receive all-conference honors at a higher ratio than do 4-star recruits. And 4-stars are more likely to achieve the honor than 3-stars and 3's more than 2's (see the annual analysis of past recruiting classes in Spartan Magazine) So, on an individual player view, the stars appear to be a worthless "predictor", but as a group, over time, there is a better chance of scoring big with a four star recruit than a 2-star - yes, even for Dantonio. Basically, having a recruiting class with higher rated recruits improves the team's margin for "error" (injuries, busts, transfers, bad character). To Dantonio's credit, he really seems to have a knack for picking "character guys.

"MSU is winning more "Plan A" recruiting battles, even with elite programs, and that is the big improvement over time during Danotio's career in East Lansing - especially 2015. Coach D has already proven that he does "more with less". Will he do "more with more"? Is it truly "more"? Because of his recent success with more "Plan A" guys this year, so I'd say yes, this is Dantonio's best class and those "stupid" recruiting rankings agree. Of course, it doesn't guarantee a single thing, just ask your local chUMP."

~R2G

You can follow MSUSpartan76 on M-Live HERE.


From Offensive Line Coach, Mark Staten:

“The stories would be endless if you talked to us about guys where you sit down and finally have a chance to talk to them, or they might come to your camp, and there’s something that turns you off. You guys might see him as a five-star guy, but with character, grades, maybe a little of that attitude, that five-star, in our mind, goes to two (stars) right now. Then those two-star guys in everyone else’s mind who (have) outstanding character, terrific person, comes from a great family, ability to learn, they jump to five-stars in our mind.”

That is the Dantonio effect that

turns the ranking system inside out.

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MSU FOOTBALL RECRUITING 2015: Where Are All Those NFL Caliber 2-Star Recruits?

One observation about the 2015 MSU Football recruiting class is that there are no more "2-star" guys to fill holes in this class. Soon we will have to talk about the 3-stars going to the NFL from East Lansing. Darn! Consecutive seasons with top 5 finishes after big bowl wins with a team made of recruiting classes between 30-40 is pretty cool. What if MSU has a few years ranked between 10-20? Will they do better than #5? Yikes! That question is sure to tick off MSUSpartan76!

A folklore has developed over the years about Dantonio's 2-star recruits becoming conference stars and NFL draft picks. While it is true that Coach D and his staff identified these "diamonds in the rough" and turbo-charged their development, an important fact has been lost. In general, most of the 2-star and lower level 3-star players were not the "Plan A" recruits. While the Spartans landed some "Plan A" guys, many more ended up at Notre Dame, Ohio State, Ann Arbor, Penn State, Wisconsin, and even lesser programs such as Kentucky and Iowa. In most cases, the lower level recruits Dantonio recruited were needed when the bigger fish got away.

Another misinterpretation of the Dantonio magic with 2 and 3 star recruits is that it "proves" that the star system is a crap-shoot and has no statistical value. Well, MSU is more of an exception on one side of the curve while Ann Arbor U is an example on the opposite side. The truth is that, even under Dantonio (and in Ann Arbor), 5-stars do receive all-conference honors at a higher ratio than do 4-star recruits. And 4-stars are more likely to achieve the honor than 3-stars and 3's more than 2's (see the annual analysis of past recruiting classes in Spartan Magazine) So, on an individual player view, the stars appear to be a worthless "predictor", but as a group, over time, there is a better chance of scoring big with a four star recruit than a 2-star - yes, even for Dantonio. Basically, having a recruiting class with higher rated recruits improves the team's margin for "error" (injuries, busts, transfers, bad character). To Dantonio's credit, he really seems to have a knack for picking "character guys".

MSU is winning more "Plan A" recruiting battles, even with elite programs, and that is the big improvement over time during Danotio's career in East Lansing - especially 2015. Coach D has already proven that he does "more with less". Will he do "more with more"? Is it truly "more"? Because of his recent success with more "Plan A" guys this year, so I'd say yes, this is Dantonio's best class and those "stupid" recruiting rankings agree. Of course, it doesn't guarantee a single thing, just ask your local chUMP.

~Return2Glory

I recently sent a message to DUMP the chUMps contributor, ATownAndDown and others, sharing a few of these of these thoughts and questions.

ATownAndDown's Reply

"We're not selling hope here. We're selling results."

~Mark Dantonio on signing day, 2015

A little over a year ago I wrote about MSU needing to seize the moment and change the national perception of the program. At the time, MSU had the opportunity to go and play potential national championship contender OSU in the Big Ten Championship Game followed by a chance to face Stanford in the Rose Bowl and then a big game against Oregon early in the following season. MSU turned a lot of heads with the finish to the 2013 season, then fell short against Oregon and then later OSU. We can have the debate about MSU leading both those contests and the potential that the Spartans had to win those games all day. But they were losses and everyone started to ask, "Who has MSU beaten this year to be a top-10 program?" The Spartans answered all the doubters with a huge rally in the Cotton Bowl to beat Baylor who many felt was a team that should have been the College Football Playoff. The recruiting class is proof that the Spartans are successfully swaying the national perception. MSU is able to break out of traditional recruiting pipelines and where MSU was a consideration in years past, MSU is winning those recruiting battles.

"Is this Coach D's best class ever?" is a very loaded question in my opinion. From the standpoint of the program taking a step forward, yes it is his best class ever. Being able to have a 4-star kid from Texas ride for 2 days on a bus to East Lansing shows the demand to be part of this this program. When players from Ohio are refusing scholarship offers to The Ohio State University (a program that prides itself on being able to pick whatever Ohio high school football players it wants) that shows how much the program has progressed. On signing day, getting two really nice defensive players from way out West to spurn offers from West Coast schools shows how special this program has become in the eyes of high school players across the nation. This class is the best at showing where the program is at Nationally.

From the talent standpoint that story has yet to be told. Like Coach D said, we are about results now and not about hope. Right now every guy in this class is "hope" in my eyes. They have proven nothing yet. So its really tough for me to say they are the best class ever when I can look at the 2010 class and see LeVeon Bell, Max Bullough, Darqueze Dennard, Wil Gholston, Kurtis Drummond, Isiah Lewis, Jeremy Langford, Travis Jackson, Tony Lippett, Keith Mumphery, Mike Sadler, Marcus Rush, Anthony Rashad White and Connor Kruse with all their wins, accomplishments, awards and resumes. This class has a chance to surpass that 2010 class, there is no doubt about that. And that path starts now. They have signed their letters of intent. None of them wavered in the least in their commitment to be part of the Spartan Family. Now its time to work. I would love to see them surpass the accomplishments of the 2010 class. But they have a long way to go in order to do that.

~ATownAndDown

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MICHIGAN FOOTBALL FLOPS OUT IN 2014

Fred Flintsone Unable to Save The Day for Michigan

Michigan wrapped-up a "dream-season" in football nearly two months ago, and the final team rankings are now recorded. UM doesn't appear in any official lists, as none of them go low enough for the Wolverines to show up. So we dug around to find out what the various computer rankings showed for Mighty Meechugin as the 2014 season is finally complete.


UM #60 IN "SAGARIN RATING"

FINAL 2014 SAGARIN COLLEGE FOOTBALL COMPUTER RANKINGS

Why call it a "dream season"? For some, it was a like a good dream, for others, a bad dream. Pretty simple. On the bright side, how bad can it be if your team is nearly as good as, say, Central Florida and Cincinnati? (see above) Those both seem like pretty nice places.

UM #49 IN "TEAM RANKINGS"

FINAL 2014 COLLEGE FOOTBALL COMPUTER RANKINGS
(by teamrankings.com)

The Blue Men cracked the Top 50 according to a service nobody every heard about before just now. So bully for them as they put Rice in their place. Good luck chasing Air Force.

UM #70 IN BLEACHER REPORT

FINAL 2014 COLLEGE FOOTBALL COMPUTER RANKINGS
(FROM BLEACHER REPORT)

Ever wonder what would have happened if Michigan had played Illinois in 2014? Nope, neither did I. But according to Bleacher Report, the game would have been a doozy, as they placed both teams side by side in their final rankings. A clash like that would probably come down to whether the kicker was booted for sexual assault, or whether the left tackle was left out due to non-sexual assault, or maybe whether some of the players were drinking before the game.

Personally, I would take the Illini if the wind was southwesterly and kickoff was after 2:00 p.m. local time. I would take the Wolverines if Brady Hoke would put on a headset and shout out "Yabba Dabba Doo" every time an opponent scores a touchdown.

So anyway, the real point of this article
is to let you all see the former legend
making the most preposterous statement,
mocking himself and his whole charade,
without seeming to have a clue what was
going on around him. As usual, right?

Here's the video:

Fred Flintstone Comments on Comparisons to Brady Hoke

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"DEAR BRADY HOKE" - - - FROM return2glory

Card and letters are flowing in to commemorate the farewell tour of Michigan Football Coach Brady Hoke. (That's probably the last time we type those five words in that order.) We put out the call for well-wishers as The Brady Bunch says "Goodbye, Ann Arbor".

First up is "return2glory", originator of this dual-purpose web site. Here is his sendoff to the donut-lover:

Dear Coach Hoke,

I really appreciated the excitement you created with your highly rated recruiting classes, and the way you could never build on their natural ability. This created a build-up of expectations and excitement, followed by a sharp letdown due to execution errors. Excellent combination!

I also thank you for bringing David Brandon to experience the excitement the crowd and the Izzone creates at the Breslin Center. It was great to have you and him both together to watch Spartan Basketball in person. You picked a great game to attend, as the Spartans handed the "We On" UM men's basketball team a lesson in competitive execution. No other UM football coach has ever come to a home MSU basketball game, so we will always remember you did that.

Also, it was fun watch the budding romance between you and Sparty. Thanks for coming, and also thanks for going! 

Yours Truly,

RETURN2GLORY

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VIDEO: MSU vs. tOSU Trailer and SPARTAN FOOTBALL ALL ACCESS 2014 - "BYE WEEK" (Episode 10)

This episode of Spartan Football All Access includes a long segment with Mark Dantonio who recaps the season to this point, the bye week, Ohio State and how the Spartans go about their business. Travis Jackson and Shilique Calhoun take us on a detailed tour of all the facilities followed by interviews with coordinators, Pat Narduzzi and Dave Warner. Then a player profile segment wraps up the bye-week episode.

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VIDEO: Spartan Football All Access 2014, Michigan Week (as seen on Fox Sports Detroit)

This video is a terrific look inside the Spartan football program during "Michigan Week". It's a high quality production with unique camera angles which attempt to capture the great atmosphere during the game. Player interviews on a personal level and locker room celebration included.

If you have difficulty with the embedded video, please use this link to the video instead.

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THIS HAS ALL BEEN VERY FUN, BUT THERE IS STILL A GAME TO PLAY ON SATURDAY!

ATown previews the actual match-up along with SpartanMan82 and MSUspartan76. Each has a distinctly different take (and tone) on the game and possible aftermath. It's a good read, but first let's all check in our our rival's coach.

The Vegas betting lines say this will be a big MSU win, perhaps a blowout. Do you believe that and expect that? Why or why not?

SpartanMan 82
I would take Michigan and the points. There are few blowouts in this series. Their quiet demeanor (so far) this week suggests they realize it's their Michigan Manhood on the line this time. Most athletes are at their best when their backs are against a wall.

ATownAndDown

I expect that the game will be right in the area of 14 to 17 points. Its a rivalry and the cliche is throw the stats and the records out the window for those kinds of games. MSU will have its work cut out in moving the ball on the ground. I don't see how U of M finds much scoring short of a superhero performance from Devin Gardner. Ultimately I think it comes down to Connor Cook's arm. Coach D has run games against U of M pretty conservatively so I don't know how much he is willing to let Cook off leash. That is why I see it remaining close but MSU still controlling.

MSUSpartan76
There are many reasons to predict a sound thrashing of the UM team on Saturday and only 1 that counters that prognostication. The 1 is that it is a huge rivalry. MSU has many, many times taken down a high ranked UM team. When this backyard brawl starts, everything is thrown out. There are 2 differences this year that make it easy to agree with Vegas betters. First, MSU plays as a team. Second, the MSU coaching staff makes excellent adjustments, not just at half time, but in real time. We have not seen that from the Ann Arbor team. I can see the UM defense possibly slowing down the MSU rushing attack, but not enough and I can not see the UM offense getting any traction. MSU wins... big.

What would have to happen for Michigan to win, or at least stay close?

ATownAndDown

Cook would have to be flat. Our defense would have to give up big play after big play after big play. And Devin Gardner would have to play like Michigan Men told us he would two years ago. Even with those factors, I don't know if U of M has the depth to hold up against a MSU team that will hit them in the mouth regardless of how the game is playing out.

MSUSpartan76

Some would say that MSU has to keep their heads attached and not think of themselves as already having won. For UM to stay in the game, they have to suddenly become a team and MSU has to make too many mistakes. In this game, momentum is bigger than talent and if the Spartans let UM get traction, it could be a long day. Coach Dantonio won't let swelled heads get in the way of the game, but we have seen the Spartans make mistakes, some of them costly, this season. MSU wins... big.

SpartanMan 82

It may be hard for MSU to run against UM, at least for awhile, allowing other factors to set the tone of the game, such as turnovers and special teams. If those variables all go blue, the game could be tight well into the fourth quarter. Michigan would need to win the turnover margin, stop or at least slow the Spartan rushing attack, and hit on some big plays, including at least one long run and one long pass.

Play-calling by Michigan State will also be important. Top priority is not to spend too many plays slamming into the UM D-Line if nothing much is happening there. MSU needs to stay diverse and creative and throw in a trick play or two (but probably not a fake punt from our own 30). If the Spartans play it too close to the sweater-vest, UM may get good field position several times early in the game, from which big plays can be especially costly to surrender.

But Michigan is basically operating without a backup quarterback, so as everybody has noted, if Gardner has to take a seat, the Wolverines may be hard-pressed to make any progress on offense.

What would be the longer-term impact of another true "woodshed beat down" by the Spartans?

MSUSpartan76

Nothing. One game does not define anything and a beat-down of a dysfunctional team will not hurt UM or help MSU in the long term. The program Coach Dantonio has built, from the ground up, is too strong and too resilient for 1 game to make a difference. The most it will do is turn a few recruits eyes towards E.L. and away from A.A. MSU wins... big.

ATownAndDown

I don't think there would be any true longer-term impact. Most folks have written Brady Hoke's requiem already. Similar to how RichRod is remembered, a "woodshed" beat down would soon become "Well that was because Brady was still in charge." I think the longer-term impact is U of M having to transition to a new coach. We have already heard a few of their recruits are back shopping around for places to play next year. We have also heard that fan base split on who should be the next coach. That job is going to be tougher to fill because there is immense pressure to the guy that brings U of M "back." You might get a solid coach that just can't deal with the politics and pressure.

Losing incoming talent and rolling the dice on someone else as "the savior" is going to have its last impact.

SpartanMan 82

I question the word "another" in the question. Last year was a close game on the scoreboard, as Michigan took the first lead and the teams were tied with a minute before half-time. It was a two-score game until a late TD sealed it for MSU. I've never seen any beat-downs by the Spartans over the Wolverines (though I've read about a few from many decades ago).

That's why it would be great to have one right now. Many people are expecting it (not me) and it would be tremendous for the Spartan program to ring one up for the record books. Any solid win will extend the UM non-dominant perception, and Dantonio might do better in head-to-head recruiting battles. Since starting at Michigan State, Dantonio has won less than one-third of the head-to-head recruiting offers against Michigan. It would be nice for our Coach to get a better percentage of those players, and that just might start happening if there's a trip to the woodshed.

What have you noticed about Ann Arbor fans on the web and other media this week?

ATownAndDown

I said it on MLive: This week has been boring. Half the fan base for U of M has mailed in the season. Half of those that remain talk about how bad the team is. And then you get a conglomerate of people that don't know what they are talking about, are dreaming with their comments or trying to hold onto some shred of the past.

Overall, I have not heard one legitimate argument for U of M this year and that sucks. At least Huskers showed up to tell us how it was going to go. They were wrong. But at least they made the week interesting. 

SpartanMan 82
They're all over the place. Some of them want to fire Brandon, some of them want to fire Hoke, some of them want to fire Brandon and Hoke, and some want to keep them in their jobs for another year. Wait, were you talking about the actual football stuff?

Some guys are really flaming on "their" school, and I mean that literally. The dude who posts as "SomeGuy73" has totally had it with Hoke and makes no bones about it. SomeGuy draws a lot of criticism for his comments on M-Live MSU articles, but when you read his comments on the UM side, you can see a Blue Man in flames. They all consider Hoke to be a Dead Man Walking, and then many of them also seem like zombies stumbling in the dark right now. It's great reading, very fascinating!

MSUSpartan76

The media is hypercritical of MSU looking to point out and exagerate every single thing they can find to cast a negative view of MSU. This was going on ever since the possibility of MSU in the Championship series came up and this week has not changed that. We have noticed more and more critical pieces on the AA squad, especially with the grass roots uprising down there. The fans, those chUMps (aka Skunkbears) are still trolling out the "Little Brother" insult as if it has some meaning or bearing on the game. The team from that school down the road has been quiet. They seem to know about the lion in the cage and are not doing anything to stir it up. MSU wins... big.




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A-TOWN AND R2G DEBATE: Is it Better for Spartans when chUMps are Good?

Form M-Live reader comments on: Mark Dantonio empathizes with Brady Hoke, prefers to keep focus on Michigan State

ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown 
I know I don't follow U of M that closely but weren't the coaches really high on what that freshman QB they had come was doing. Maybe Hoke needs to go all in and see if that guy is the answer. I mean the defense has been doing a pretty darn good job and the points seems to be coming from turnovers. If I am a coach, I am doing everything I can to show signs that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. If you get the freshman QB to look decent in a pro-style system and the defense continues to look decent, maybe there is something to show that you are building something.

Unfortunately Hoke is 4 years in and you would think he would have guys in place to be competing at a high level by now. Its not great for the conference. I mean don't get me wrong: I want MSU to beat U of M every year but the B1G is better when U of M is ranked. I would prefer to beat a 7-0 U of M team then 5-2. Hope that if Hoke goes they put someone in there that doesn't take 2-3 years to get the program back. B1G is behind the 8-ball enough.


return2glory | SpartanResource.com

I'm of the opinion of 'let them drown". Other Big Ten schools ranked highly and beating major out of conference opponents is preferable to giving Ann Arbor any hope at all. I'd love to see less than 50K in attendance in the Pig House. I'd love to be able view them as "a minor irritation". Remember being called that? They (coaches and administrators included) can't even call another conference institution by their correct name! Success for anyone but them. It's a rivalry. There is supposed to disdain. It is part of what makes it fun. Why would any team want success for a rival? Do Auburn fans want Alabama to remain great? Once you've got your foot on their throat, you don't let up. They never did when we were gasping for air. I'd love to see Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers out-recruit them for some big time players. Hey, you can say it will never happen, but we never thought this 7-year dismal run in Ann Arbor would happen and here we are - it's reality. Let's enjoy seeing how bad it can get!


ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown
While I agree with you to the extent that the B1G does not revolve around U of M, I do have to disagree with you that the B1G can be just as good with a ranked IU team.

As much as some MSU fans want to ignore it, U of M is a brand. You can debate history, last 50 years, last 10 years, or whatever. There is a reason why when a U of M team goes 5-0 the national media ranks them and heads start to turn. There is a reason why winged helmets and the block M are recognized in California, Texas, Florida as it is in Michigan. There is a reason why ESPN has a CFB Nation page for U of M. They are a team like Nebraska, like PSU, and like OSU that extend in the minds of college football fans across the country.

A relevant U of M team is going to carry more weight. Why did beating OSU in the B1G Championship Game turn so many heads? Would it have been the same if it was even Wisconsin? I doubt it. Look at how we view other conferences. How does the Big 12 look without Texas? Does Baylor fill that hole of perception in the minds of the masses like Longhorns Nation would if it was doing the same thing? That is the same way that the rest of the college football world looks at the B1G. U of M, PSU and Nebraska being relevant teams matters. Nebraska is at least ranked. PSU has an excuse and appears on the mend. U of M though...?

Look I am with you in hating the Michigan Man rhetoric about what his team did a million years ago. But the fact is Wisconsin has been a solid program for years and they still don't get the respect that U of M does on a national level. Think if MSU played this years schedule and beat a top-10 ranked Nebraska, beat a 7-0 ranked U of M, beat a ranked OSU even without Miller, beat a ranked PSU, and then went to the B1G Championship and beat a one or two loss Wisconsin. Anyone think that run doesn't turn the selection committees heads. You know all those games are national games that are getting talked about on the national sports talk for a week in advance. That is what the conference needs because that is what the SEC has had for years now.

return2glory | SpartanResource.com
I'm not saying you are wrong about any of it. I get the logic. For me, the minor benefit it gives the conference (and indirectly MSU), I'm not into the idea of Michigan being a power. Aside from my general dislike for them, they are our primary recruiting and media competitor. Their fans are also in our face exaggerating both past and current success (when they have it). If they were located in another state, I might be able to swallow the, "it's better for MSU when Ann Arbor has a good football team". But in reality, it just aint so - emotionally or logistically - at least not for MSU. MSU, Ohio State, and Notre Dame are the primary benefactors of Ann Arbor sucking. I care most about my team. Let them suck.


ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown
Go look at MSU's recruiting class. Only 4 of 13 are from in the state. If you ask me, MSU appears to be moving into a new class of recruiting that extends beyond the "backyard"

As far as media, all of that revenue is split among the conference. Gone are the days of local media contracts. All the significant money comes from the major networks to the conference as a whole and is split. That is why once the B1G Network boosted the B1G's revenue you started to see all the other conferences get their own networks. Its the whole union vs. individual worker concept.

Look I like to have a good laugh at all the folks that pointed out MSU's warts and said "That doesn't happen at Michigan because we are Michigan" and now getting to see them grow the same warts. But remember when the perception thing bit U of M in the butt in 2006. We laughed then too. Do you think we are immune from that? Where is the perception of the B1G since 2006?

I have pointed it out before. 4 spaces isn't a lot. There are 5 power conferences so someone isn't dancing. There are any number of situations were you can see 2 conferences getting left out. IMO I think there is going to come a day where MSU is going to need to rely on the strength of the conference. Do I want MSU to have beaten a U of M team that is 10-2 or a U of M team that is 6-6 when that day comes? I know my answer doesn't involve the term "humble pie" in it


return2glory | SpartanResource.com
A-Town - In response to your four points...

Recruits - You don't look at players we got, you look at players we wanted and didn't get. Many are UM's roster and verbal commitment list. UM sucking for several more years can change that.

Media - I'm just talking publicity. When the teams are equal, Ann Arbor gets disproportionate attention. If they suck, we don't have to deal with it.

2006 - Big Ten perception began decline. MSU gained respect and chUMps began their era of sucking. I'll take that deal.

4 spaces for power 5 plus one undefeated non-power: See the original three keys to a one loss Spartan team (from a "weak" Big Ten) getting into the football playoffs.

-R2G


ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown
Reply to: @return2glory | SpartanResource.com and @Boognish Rising 

I think [you] are looking at this from an emotional point of view and not one of logic and reasoning.

R2G you are talking about MSU not being able to get recruits or not getting balanced media coverage unless U of M sucks. From a personal standpoint, I would rather earn those things than have them given to me because the other guy is an also ran. But I think this shows exactly what I have been saying too: U of M has been average for how long now and yet they still carry the weight that they do. You don't just find a program like that laying around. Do you think that recruits and media are going to starting paying more attention to an MSU team that goes 4 for 5 in this era or if that run came against U of M teams that were on par with those they fielded in the 70's. If you want people to think you are the best, you need to beat the best.

I think if you look at ND, you can get a good idea that U of M isn't going to just fade away. ND was mediocre from the mid-90's until 2012. It was nearly 2 decades of new coaches and reliving the good ol' days. Heck even before 2012 they were an 8-5 team. Even that 2012 team did look like it belonged on the field with Bama. Last year they were a 9 win team and opened ranked 17th this year. After "big" wins against Rice, U of M and Purdue they are now a top-10 team and some folks are rumbling about a national championship birth. Why is that?

The media and the state of college football doesn't allow programs to fade. Its been nearly a decade since U of M was relevant and you still have national radio shows and television commentators discussing what is going on in Ann Arbor and what it means for the future of that program. It isn't going to take a lot for the bus to magically get back on the road. Let's say that U of M endures another coach that averaged 7-8 wins and gets canned. Its been nearly 2 decades and new coach rolls into Ann Arbor and U of M opens 8-0. How mad are you going to be that all these media outlets and fans start to boast about a championship run? Its going to happen. The same way it happens for Florida. The same way it happens for ND. The same way it will happen for Texas. Heck look how hard they are trying to push USC like its a top-10 program again.

In my opinion its a waste to sit here and hope that U of M turns into Indiana. I would rather focus on my squad getting better and hope that U of M comes back and we can dash championship dreams as opposed to beating a dead horse. Its better for the perception of MSU and that is all I care about. Our program can't control the perception of any other program. Give me 15 undefeated teams that MSU beats every time. Then tell me that MSU isn't the best team in the land.

return2glory | SpartanResource.com
Reply to; @ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown @return2glory | SpartanResource.com @Boognish Rising

A-Town, Corrections to your twisting of my points to help make your argument:

I said that I didn't disagree with your points. I also said I don't care that UM sticks. If MSU keeps winning, we don't need UM to be any better than they are now. Basically, I don't see any need to want UM to be elite if MSU is elite without them.

I didn't say (paraphrased) "no success for MSU unless UM sucks". I said we can win more recruiting battles against them when they suck.

I want to beat the best. I just don't care that UM is not among the best. I actually enjoy it when they suck.

I didn't agree or disagree with your premise that it would be even better if MSU were a top five program while UM was also good. I basically said that I don't want them to be good and I just prefer them to be lousy and MSU stay great. If MSU is great, it is not important for UM to return to the days of six total program Rose Bowl victories. I don't even want them to get a sniff.

I know Ann Arbor will not fade away. I didn't say they would. I know they will be elite again someday. That day will come sooner than I want. I prefer to not root for it to happen as earlier than it has to. I prefer to root for whoever is playing Ann Arbor this week and next week and forever.

I'm not mad about about UM's moles in the media. I just enjoy that they are powerless to help them win games. I enjoy that Minnesota is the biggest game their schedule right now. I just prefer they suck for so long that some of the illusion and mystique wears off and fades away. I'm not saying it will happen, but I see no need to root for them to regain prominence.

To me it's a waste of time to hope UM gets better. I find it enjoyable that their "championship hopes" are dashed before the conference schedule even begins. I am way more concerned about my favorite team. I don't see any need to root for our arrogant rivals who project a false image about what Michigan really is. I'm not suggesting we can control perceptions about other programs. I'll take the 15 undefeated seasons for MSU as you suggested. If UM were to miss a bowl game for those 15 years it would be even better.

It's simple. You want them to be better because you think it somehow benefits MSU. I want them to suck because if MSU keeps winning, we won't need them for anything.

[I love seeing articles about the fall-out in Ann Arbor like THIS.]


Insert From "SpartanMan82"
I am very entertained by the psychodrama that is now Michigan Football. I have been enjoying all of the bridge-jumping by chUMps of all shapes and sizes the past few weeks, especially since the Utah game. It has been a very pleasant experience to watch them flounder about aimlessly this season, thrashing each other more than they have done to their opponents.

The only complaint I have is all this stuff that the Mainstream Michigan Media Machine (M-4) is trying to pump out about the B1G Conference "needing UM to do well". Why not Illinois, the home of Red Grange? Why not Purdue, the former cradle-of-quarterbacks? Why not Minnesota, the thundering herd of the 1930's and 1940's? What about Nebraska, one of the historically greatest programs in college football history? Why is it that the B1G Conference does not seem to need those schools to do well?

Only Michigan counts to the M-4. The claims that the conference "needs them" are pure bunk written by chUMps and the folks who are paid by them to push their propaganda.

A-Town is certainly right that on a national perspective, the conference would benefit from UM avoiding their own self-immolation. But that's only because people have been trained to expect to see them succeed. People can be re-trained. Any other conference program that rises to the top - - - including MSU - - - will eventually be noticed by fans and recognized by the sports media as relevant.

I always remember that George Perles said "they all count one". That means losses as well as wins. Those chUMps only have two losses right now, and I'm the guy pointing out they could still go 10-2. But they are peeing all over themselves right now, and it's a great sight to see!

_____________________________________

Other Comments in the thread:

GruffSpartyisBestSparty
I would rather see a ranked IU than UM. Heck any team for that matter. The [Big Ten] does not revolve around um no matter what their history is, or what their fans desire. The [Big Ten] needs stronger teams, but they DON'T have to be UM. Now is it as fun beating up a team like UM when they appear to be whimpering on the ground? Not really...but the narrative the [Big Ten] is hinging on UM is a joke. Far more teams need to step up than just them.

RosesAreGreen
Crush their nuts.


RosesAreGreen
Spartan fans urged to contribute. Http://www.savebradyhoke.com


Boognish Rising
Count me in on the "let 'em drown" side of this argument.

Army. Pittsburgh. Minnesota. Cal. What do these teams have in common? If you go back far enough, each were once college football powers -winning multiple national titles. Eventually, they faded, and programs such as UM, ND, OSU, and Bama stepped up. To date they still play second fiddle to other programs.

The point is that times change - football programs change - and some never regain the success they once enjoyed, allowing a new guard to take over. I don't see any reason why that can't happen at Michigan. People just assume that the day will come when they will again be relevant, because, hey, they ARE Michigan after all……. right?

The mediocrity has already spanned close to a decade. Another 5 years of mediocrity may very well spell the death of the UM "Brand", as the future players of tomorrow will have grown up knowing UM as nothing other than a middle of the pack B1G team.


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