OUR PRE-GAME PREDICTIONS WERE MUCH BETTER THAN MAINSTREAM MEDIA FRENZY

Everybody who works on this web site believes in accountability. We believe that what people say do must be measured-up against a standard of Quality. That's why we created this web site in the first place, to hold the sports media accountable for all of the blather they propagate about their top-crush-of-all-time, the University of Michigan. We offer facts and viewpoints that counter, or even contradict, what we call the Michigan Mainstream Media Machine.

We don't make lots of game predictions here, just once in awhile, and usually only when it's about an MSU vs. UM game. So when we do so, we feel it's our responsibility to report back to you on how we did. And the truth is, this week we did quite well.

We published pre-game viewpoints from "MSUSpartan76", "ATownAndDown", "return2glory", and "SpartanMan82". Everybody, in their own way, called the game a "toss-up", despite the sports media tsunami predicting an overwhelming tidal-wave blowout by UM. Most would agree that a game literally decided on the last play, must have been a "tossup".

Here's a look back at what our authors said before the game was played:


ATownAndDown

• MSU wins by slowing UM ground game. 62 yards rushing and only one run longer than 8 yards.
• MSU wins by pressuring Rudock. Three sacks, two quarterback-hits, and multiple hurried throws by Rudock.
• MSU wins by letting Cook throw the ball. 39 attempts, 328 yards passing.
• Advised against getting into third-and-long situations against UM. 3-12 on third-down.
• CALLED THE GAME A TOSSUP

MSUSpartan76

• UM has a special-teams advantage. Three field-goals, an 80-yard punt, and multiple big kick returns.
• MSU Defense has advantage over UM Offense. Only 62 yards rushing, only 15 completed passes, 25% conversion-rate on 3rd/4th Downs, and only one run longer than 8 yards.
• MSU Offense even with UM Defense. Nearly 400 yards of Total Offense, three touchdowns scored from scrimmage.
• CALLED THE GAME A TOSSUP

SpartanMan82

• UM Defense is over-rated. Gave up 386 yards, 5.4 yards-per-play, and three touchdowns from scrimmage.
• UM Offense has been un-challenged. Only two scoring drives of over 38 yards.
• UM Offense statistically inflated due to running-up scores. 230 total yards, only 4.0 per play. "Good" but not "Great".
• Connor Cook is the key variable. Cook threw for more yards than UM has given up in multiple games combined.
• CALLED THE GAME A TOSSUP

return2glory

• Wondered whether MSU would make it seem to UM like they were going to win, only to rev-it-up at the last second to snatch victory away from them ("little-brother" style). Golly, gee, look what happened at the end!
• Said there was no way Dantonio would mock UM the way that Mike Hart mocked MSU, even if the same thing happened in favor of the Spartans. Dantonio complimented UM multiple times in post-game interviews and never claimed superiority over UM or "intent" to let game go down to the wire.

So while the Michigan Mainstream Media Machine was cranking out stories all week predicting the gloomy end of the Dantonio Era, we were keeping it real with our pre-game views. While crazy chUMps all over the Internet were spewing wild predictions of a vicious bloodbath, we sized up the game as a "toss-up", with either team about as likely to win as the other.

People like to call us "biased" for what we do,

but look at the record in this case.

Who was the "biased media" this week:

DumpTheChumps or the mainstream sports media?

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A-TOWN WEIGHS IN ON THE BIG RIVALRY GAME (from "ATownAndDown")

(this pre-game report comes from "ATownAndDown")

Can Michigan State win this game? Of course. Can they lose this game? Of course. I don't care who you are, if you can't recognize that U-of-M is ahead of the curve in Jim Harbaugh's first year you are just being a slappy fan that is choosing to ignore it.

What they are doing is very reminiscent of what Coach D did when he first got to MSU with the exception being, 

U-of-M

 has a better defense than MSU did at that time (mostly because John L. Smith had a tendency to focus on offense over defense so much). The tone of the 

U-of-M

 team has changed. Where before they would talk about wanting to be physical now they have stopped talking and are just being physical. They are not doing anything special. Their play is pretty conservative. But they run the ball. They stop the run. And they have a legit secondary. If they avoid mistakes they should be able to compete with most teams.

I don't know if you can look at the competition of either team and say they have or haven't played anyone. MSU has won every game they have stepped on the field for this year. Last time I checked, if you win them all, you are going to have a shot at a championship. Even if 

U-of-M

 has played "less-than" offenses and ran up the score, they have done what they are supposed to do against those "less-thans", right? I feel that if schedules and results were reversed, MSU fans would be saying "What do you expect a top-10 defense to do against a horrible offense?" Because that is what was being said after playing EMU and Wyoming in the past.

I think the way MSU wins this game is by slowing the 

U-of-M

 ground attack and getting pressure on Rudock defensively and taking the leash off Cook early to make plays with his arm and feet. Rudock has a lot of Brian Hoyer in him and we all know Hoyer was a good game manager but he could not go out and win a game on his own. If Cook can get some stuff rolling, like Utah did with Wilson, it will loosen the 

U-of-M

 defense up and open up running lanes for MSU's backs. 

U-of-M

 hasn't faced an offense that has thrown a bunch of big backs at them and if Cook can get safeties and a LB or two out of the box, it might change the tone of the game.

From the counter-point, 

U-of-M

 matches up great against MSU. We have seen teams still find ways to get big plays and even some weaker teams sustain drives against our defense. 

U-of-M

 is a very patient offense that will take what is given and wait for big plays to come. Defensively, they want to stop the run and this year we have been eager to run early and often. You don't want to get into a lot of 3rd-and-long situations against 

U-of-M

's defense.

This will be a real test for both teams. Can 

U-of-M

 compete with the elite teams like RichRod and Hoke struggled with? Was MSU really sandbagging it early in the season and now going to turn it up? Are MSU's injuries bad enough to end a promising season? All those and more will have to be answered soon.

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MSU FOOTBALL RECRUITING 2015: Where Are All Those NFL Caliber 2-Star Recruits?

One observation about the 2015 MSU Football recruiting class is that there are no more "2-star" guys to fill holes in this class. Soon we will have to talk about the 3-stars going to the NFL from East Lansing. Darn! Consecutive seasons with top 5 finishes after big bowl wins with a team made of recruiting classes between 30-40 is pretty cool. What if MSU has a few years ranked between 10-20? Will they do better than #5? Yikes! That question is sure to tick off MSUSpartan76!

A folklore has developed over the years about Dantonio's 2-star recruits becoming conference stars and NFL draft picks. While it is true that Coach D and his staff identified these "diamonds in the rough" and turbo-charged their development, an important fact has been lost. In general, most of the 2-star and lower level 3-star players were not the "Plan A" recruits. While the Spartans landed some "Plan A" guys, many more ended up at Notre Dame, Ohio State, Ann Arbor, Penn State, Wisconsin, and even lesser programs such as Kentucky and Iowa. In most cases, the lower level recruits Dantonio recruited were needed when the bigger fish got away.

Another misinterpretation of the Dantonio magic with 2 and 3 star recruits is that it "proves" that the star system is a crap-shoot and has no statistical value. Well, MSU is more of an exception on one side of the curve while Ann Arbor U is an example on the opposite side. The truth is that, even under Dantonio (and in Ann Arbor), 5-stars do receive all-conference honors at a higher ratio than do 4-star recruits. And 4-stars are more likely to achieve the honor than 3-stars and 3's more than 2's (see the annual analysis of past recruiting classes in Spartan Magazine) So, on an individual player view, the stars appear to be a worthless "predictor", but as a group, over time, there is a better chance of scoring big with a four star recruit than a 2-star - yes, even for Dantonio. Basically, having a recruiting class with higher rated recruits improves the team's margin for "error" (injuries, busts, transfers, bad character). To Dantonio's credit, he really seems to have a knack for picking "character guys".

MSU is winning more "Plan A" recruiting battles, even with elite programs, and that is the big improvement over time during Danotio's career in East Lansing - especially 2015. Coach D has already proven that he does "more with less". Will he do "more with more"? Is it truly "more"? Because of his recent success with more "Plan A" guys this year, so I'd say yes, this is Dantonio's best class and those "stupid" recruiting rankings agree. Of course, it doesn't guarantee a single thing, just ask your local chUMP.

~Return2Glory

I recently sent a message to DUMP the chUMps contributor, ATownAndDown and others, sharing a few of these of these thoughts and questions.

ATownAndDown's Reply

"We're not selling hope here. We're selling results."

~Mark Dantonio on signing day, 2015

A little over a year ago I wrote about MSU needing to seize the moment and change the national perception of the program. At the time, MSU had the opportunity to go and play potential national championship contender OSU in the Big Ten Championship Game followed by a chance to face Stanford in the Rose Bowl and then a big game against Oregon early in the following season. MSU turned a lot of heads with the finish to the 2013 season, then fell short against Oregon and then later OSU. We can have the debate about MSU leading both those contests and the potential that the Spartans had to win those games all day. But they were losses and everyone started to ask, "Who has MSU beaten this year to be a top-10 program?" The Spartans answered all the doubters with a huge rally in the Cotton Bowl to beat Baylor who many felt was a team that should have been the College Football Playoff. The recruiting class is proof that the Spartans are successfully swaying the national perception. MSU is able to break out of traditional recruiting pipelines and where MSU was a consideration in years past, MSU is winning those recruiting battles.

"Is this Coach D's best class ever?" is a very loaded question in my opinion. From the standpoint of the program taking a step forward, yes it is his best class ever. Being able to have a 4-star kid from Texas ride for 2 days on a bus to East Lansing shows the demand to be part of this this program. When players from Ohio are refusing scholarship offers to The Ohio State University (a program that prides itself on being able to pick whatever Ohio high school football players it wants) that shows how much the program has progressed. On signing day, getting two really nice defensive players from way out West to spurn offers from West Coast schools shows how special this program has become in the eyes of high school players across the nation. This class is the best at showing where the program is at Nationally.

From the talent standpoint that story has yet to be told. Like Coach D said, we are about results now and not about hope. Right now every guy in this class is "hope" in my eyes. They have proven nothing yet. So its really tough for me to say they are the best class ever when I can look at the 2010 class and see LeVeon Bell, Max Bullough, Darqueze Dennard, Wil Gholston, Kurtis Drummond, Isiah Lewis, Jeremy Langford, Travis Jackson, Tony Lippett, Keith Mumphery, Mike Sadler, Marcus Rush, Anthony Rashad White and Connor Kruse with all their wins, accomplishments, awards and resumes. This class has a chance to surpass that 2010 class, there is no doubt about that. And that path starts now. They have signed their letters of intent. None of them wavered in the least in their commitment to be part of the Spartan Family. Now its time to work. I would love to see them surpass the accomplishments of the 2010 class. But they have a long way to go in order to do that.

~ATownAndDown

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2015 UM RECRUITING CLASS UPDATE: THE SHOOTING STARS OF "MYTH-AGAIN" FOOTBALL

Time to talk about Michigan Football recruiting. The perennial "national champions" of recruiting are seeing their incoming flow of 4-star and 5-star players dribbling to a trickle after their record-setting season of failure. How bad is it? Let's take a look.

Brady Hoke made his name at UM by attracting hordes of highly-ranked high-school football players, racking up so many "recruiting victories" that those folks had his statue in the design phase, just waiting for the results to play out on the field. His incoming classes have been ranked, #21, #7, #5,and #31, for a Top 20 average. Three of Hoke's four classes have been ranked higher than Mark Dantonio's recruits in the same year.

But this year may be different. The Wolverines opened the 2014 season with 11 verbal commitments, including nine 4-star recruits. Three players have de-committed, including the top two players from that group, while four more are flagrantly violating what Hoke said was a Michigan Football rule; that a player committed to the Wolverines MAY NOT take visits to other schools and hold his UM scholarship offer.

Below is a screen-shot of the 2015 Michigan Football Commitment List from Rivals, as it looked at the beginning of this season. The list is organized by the "Rivals Rating", which is found in the eighth of ten columns. So the players are listed in "rank order" from top to bottom:

MICHIGAN FOOTBALL VERBAL COMMITMENTS AS OF SEPTEMBER 1, 2014

The top three players on the list have identical rankings of "6.0", which is just below "5-star" status. Roseboro and Taylor have de-committed, while Clark, Cole, Kinnel, and Kirkland are in the process of breaking the "Michigan Rule". (Meanwhile, several of the lower-ranked players are considered "locks", such as legacy recruit Jon Runyan.)

Let's summarize the status of the 11 players who were committed to UM before the Irish rout in South Bend. All of the players listed below are "4-star" recruits except Runyan (3-star) and David (2-star):

CHRIS CLARK -  TAKING OTHER VISITS. Clark has not yet publicly de-committed, but he has three trips scheduled to other schools in November (North Carolina, Texas, and Southern California). He holds an MSU offer, along with offers from 45 other schools.

DARIAN ROSEBORO -  GONE. Roseboro politely de-committed after Minnesota beat UM. He holds 22 other offers, and after sifting through them, he re-selected a school closer to his home (North Carolina State) on October 11.

GARRETT TAYLOR -  GONE. Taylor dropped out after MSU beat UM, choosing to review his other 32 offers. He has trips scheduled to Ohio State and Penn State, and he does hold an offer from MSU.

BRIAN COLE -  TAKING OTHER VISITS. Cole visited Wisconsin last month. From Saginaw, he holds an MSU offer, along with offers from eight other schools.

MIKE WEBER -  TAKING OTHER VISITS. From Detroit Cass Tech, Weber has not publicly wavered from his UM commitment. However, he said last month that he will be "exploring his options". Current reports indicate he will visit Ohio State, Miami, and Southern California.  He holds an MSU offer, and he's planning an official visit to East Lansing as well. He says he's unsure where he will take his fifth official visit, meaning that Michigan is apparently his "safety school". Weber has about a dozen total offers.

TYREE KINNEL - TAKING OTHER VISITS. From Ohio, Weber has not publicly wavered from his UM commitment, claiming he is "still a UM commit", but he is at West Virginia this weekend for a look-and-see. He holds an MSU offer, along with five other offers.

DARREN KIRKLAND, Jr. - GONE. Kirkland was at Ole Miss this weekend and has scheduled a trip to Oklahoma next weekend. He also has trips planned to Texas, Oregon, and Southern California. He holds 27 total scholarship offers. Kirkland de-committed 12 days after the Spartans beat the Wolverines. (MSU did not offer him.)

ALEX MALZONE -  Malzone committed to UM in May, and has not wavered. Most observers consider him to be solid to Michigan. He has a dozen total offers. (MSU did not offer him.)

GRANT NEWSOME -  Newsome committed to UM in June, and has not wavered. However, he has said that if Brady Hoke was fired, he would have to reconsider the decision. MSU has offered him, along with 30 other schools.

JON RUNYAN, Jr. -  As a "legacy recruit", Runyan is considered by most observers to be the most solid UM commitment. He has stated so publicly. He had one offer to play college football (from Michigan).

ANDREW DAVID - No word from David either way. He had one offer to play college football (from Michigan).

Since the firestorm of Notre Dame hit Michigan football in September, three recruits have de-committed, four more are taking other visits despite their "commitment", and two others are putting up a committed front while leaving some wiggle-room with their actual plans. So eight out of eleven players who were verbally committed to Michigan two months ago are either on the fence or have left UM behind.

Michigan seems to be in strong shape

with only three verbally-committed players

for their 2015 recruiting class.

Comments from ATownAndDown:

U of M recruiting is in a tough spot. Hoke is essentially a lame duck at this point. With Brandon's exit it is quite clear based on the timing that the first thing on the new AD's plate will be to hire his guy to fill the role of head football coach. So how does Hoke go into a kids living room and tell that kids mom that he will take care of her son for the next 4 years when he might not be there in the next 4 minutes?

I have heard the adage "You commit to the school and not to the coach" but that is just noise. The fact is kids today have more information when making their decision then they did 10-20 years ago. They not only know who is on a roster already but what system the coach runs and how those guys fit in that system. If that coach leaves, so does the security that you are going to be a fit for the next guy coming in. When you are talking about top ranked high school recruits generally they want to display their talents as much as possible in order to move to the next level. And even those that don't have aspirations of the NFL, still want to play and not be stuck buried on the depth chart. Maybe the guys on the list that are looking around will be a fit for the next guy. Or maybe they won't. At this point, I think you have to understand why they would do their due diligence and look around so that if they are not a fit, they are not scrambling to find a place.

This type of thing is not unprecedented. John L. Smith coached that entire last year but it was announced on November 1st that he would not be coming back. Coach D was hired at MSU on November 27, 2006. MSU had 22 commits in that first class of his and 20 of them committed after Coach D was hired. I am willing to guess that John L. had more than 2 guys committed before the start of November but only 2 remained. Going back to when John L. took over, only 3 guys that committed to Williams remained on signing day.

The long and short of this is I am not surprised by the fact that guys are looking around and/or decommitting. Also reading into this being a U of M thing is overlooking the fact that U of M is not unique in seeing this response from commits when you have a lame duck in the driver's seat.

-ATown

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A-TOWN AND R2G DEBATE: Is it Better for Spartans when chUMps are Good?

Form M-Live reader comments on: Mark Dantonio empathizes with Brady Hoke, prefers to keep focus on Michigan State

ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown 
I know I don't follow U of M that closely but weren't the coaches really high on what that freshman QB they had come was doing. Maybe Hoke needs to go all in and see if that guy is the answer. I mean the defense has been doing a pretty darn good job and the points seems to be coming from turnovers. If I am a coach, I am doing everything I can to show signs that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. If you get the freshman QB to look decent in a pro-style system and the defense continues to look decent, maybe there is something to show that you are building something.

Unfortunately Hoke is 4 years in and you would think he would have guys in place to be competing at a high level by now. Its not great for the conference. I mean don't get me wrong: I want MSU to beat U of M every year but the B1G is better when U of M is ranked. I would prefer to beat a 7-0 U of M team then 5-2. Hope that if Hoke goes they put someone in there that doesn't take 2-3 years to get the program back. B1G is behind the 8-ball enough.


return2glory | SpartanResource.com

I'm of the opinion of 'let them drown". Other Big Ten schools ranked highly and beating major out of conference opponents is preferable to giving Ann Arbor any hope at all. I'd love to see less than 50K in attendance in the Pig House. I'd love to be able view them as "a minor irritation". Remember being called that? They (coaches and administrators included) can't even call another conference institution by their correct name! Success for anyone but them. It's a rivalry. There is supposed to disdain. It is part of what makes it fun. Why would any team want success for a rival? Do Auburn fans want Alabama to remain great? Once you've got your foot on their throat, you don't let up. They never did when we were gasping for air. I'd love to see Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers out-recruit them for some big time players. Hey, you can say it will never happen, but we never thought this 7-year dismal run in Ann Arbor would happen and here we are - it's reality. Let's enjoy seeing how bad it can get!


ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown
While I agree with you to the extent that the B1G does not revolve around U of M, I do have to disagree with you that the B1G can be just as good with a ranked IU team.

As much as some MSU fans want to ignore it, U of M is a brand. You can debate history, last 50 years, last 10 years, or whatever. There is a reason why when a U of M team goes 5-0 the national media ranks them and heads start to turn. There is a reason why winged helmets and the block M are recognized in California, Texas, Florida as it is in Michigan. There is a reason why ESPN has a CFB Nation page for U of M. They are a team like Nebraska, like PSU, and like OSU that extend in the minds of college football fans across the country.

A relevant U of M team is going to carry more weight. Why did beating OSU in the B1G Championship Game turn so many heads? Would it have been the same if it was even Wisconsin? I doubt it. Look at how we view other conferences. How does the Big 12 look without Texas? Does Baylor fill that hole of perception in the minds of the masses like Longhorns Nation would if it was doing the same thing? That is the same way that the rest of the college football world looks at the B1G. U of M, PSU and Nebraska being relevant teams matters. Nebraska is at least ranked. PSU has an excuse and appears on the mend. U of M though...?

Look I am with you in hating the Michigan Man rhetoric about what his team did a million years ago. But the fact is Wisconsin has been a solid program for years and they still don't get the respect that U of M does on a national level. Think if MSU played this years schedule and beat a top-10 ranked Nebraska, beat a 7-0 ranked U of M, beat a ranked OSU even without Miller, beat a ranked PSU, and then went to the B1G Championship and beat a one or two loss Wisconsin. Anyone think that run doesn't turn the selection committees heads. You know all those games are national games that are getting talked about on the national sports talk for a week in advance. That is what the conference needs because that is what the SEC has had for years now.

return2glory | SpartanResource.com
I'm not saying you are wrong about any of it. I get the logic. For me, the minor benefit it gives the conference (and indirectly MSU), I'm not into the idea of Michigan being a power. Aside from my general dislike for them, they are our primary recruiting and media competitor. Their fans are also in our face exaggerating both past and current success (when they have it). If they were located in another state, I might be able to swallow the, "it's better for MSU when Ann Arbor has a good football team". But in reality, it just aint so - emotionally or logistically - at least not for MSU. MSU, Ohio State, and Notre Dame are the primary benefactors of Ann Arbor sucking. I care most about my team. Let them suck.


ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown
Go look at MSU's recruiting class. Only 4 of 13 are from in the state. If you ask me, MSU appears to be moving into a new class of recruiting that extends beyond the "backyard"

As far as media, all of that revenue is split among the conference. Gone are the days of local media contracts. All the significant money comes from the major networks to the conference as a whole and is split. That is why once the B1G Network boosted the B1G's revenue you started to see all the other conferences get their own networks. Its the whole union vs. individual worker concept.

Look I like to have a good laugh at all the folks that pointed out MSU's warts and said "That doesn't happen at Michigan because we are Michigan" and now getting to see them grow the same warts. But remember when the perception thing bit U of M in the butt in 2006. We laughed then too. Do you think we are immune from that? Where is the perception of the B1G since 2006?

I have pointed it out before. 4 spaces isn't a lot. There are 5 power conferences so someone isn't dancing. There are any number of situations were you can see 2 conferences getting left out. IMO I think there is going to come a day where MSU is going to need to rely on the strength of the conference. Do I want MSU to have beaten a U of M team that is 10-2 or a U of M team that is 6-6 when that day comes? I know my answer doesn't involve the term "humble pie" in it


return2glory | SpartanResource.com
A-Town - In response to your four points...

Recruits - You don't look at players we got, you look at players we wanted and didn't get. Many are UM's roster and verbal commitment list. UM sucking for several more years can change that.

Media - I'm just talking publicity. When the teams are equal, Ann Arbor gets disproportionate attention. If they suck, we don't have to deal with it.

2006 - Big Ten perception began decline. MSU gained respect and chUMps began their era of sucking. I'll take that deal.

4 spaces for power 5 plus one undefeated non-power: See the original three keys to a one loss Spartan team (from a "weak" Big Ten) getting into the football playoffs.

-R2G


ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown
Reply to: @return2glory | SpartanResource.com and @Boognish Rising 

I think [you] are looking at this from an emotional point of view and not one of logic and reasoning.

R2G you are talking about MSU not being able to get recruits or not getting balanced media coverage unless U of M sucks. From a personal standpoint, I would rather earn those things than have them given to me because the other guy is an also ran. But I think this shows exactly what I have been saying too: U of M has been average for how long now and yet they still carry the weight that they do. You don't just find a program like that laying around. Do you think that recruits and media are going to starting paying more attention to an MSU team that goes 4 for 5 in this era or if that run came against U of M teams that were on par with those they fielded in the 70's. If you want people to think you are the best, you need to beat the best.

I think if you look at ND, you can get a good idea that U of M isn't going to just fade away. ND was mediocre from the mid-90's until 2012. It was nearly 2 decades of new coaches and reliving the good ol' days. Heck even before 2012 they were an 8-5 team. Even that 2012 team did look like it belonged on the field with Bama. Last year they were a 9 win team and opened ranked 17th this year. After "big" wins against Rice, U of M and Purdue they are now a top-10 team and some folks are rumbling about a national championship birth. Why is that?

The media and the state of college football doesn't allow programs to fade. Its been nearly a decade since U of M was relevant and you still have national radio shows and television commentators discussing what is going on in Ann Arbor and what it means for the future of that program. It isn't going to take a lot for the bus to magically get back on the road. Let's say that U of M endures another coach that averaged 7-8 wins and gets canned. Its been nearly 2 decades and new coach rolls into Ann Arbor and U of M opens 8-0. How mad are you going to be that all these media outlets and fans start to boast about a championship run? Its going to happen. The same way it happens for Florida. The same way it happens for ND. The same way it will happen for Texas. Heck look how hard they are trying to push USC like its a top-10 program again.

In my opinion its a waste to sit here and hope that U of M turns into Indiana. I would rather focus on my squad getting better and hope that U of M comes back and we can dash championship dreams as opposed to beating a dead horse. Its better for the perception of MSU and that is all I care about. Our program can't control the perception of any other program. Give me 15 undefeated teams that MSU beats every time. Then tell me that MSU isn't the best team in the land.

return2glory | SpartanResource.com
Reply to; @ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown @return2glory | SpartanResource.com @Boognish Rising

A-Town, Corrections to your twisting of my points to help make your argument:

I said that I didn't disagree with your points. I also said I don't care that UM sticks. If MSU keeps winning, we don't need UM to be any better than they are now. Basically, I don't see any need to want UM to be elite if MSU is elite without them.

I didn't say (paraphrased) "no success for MSU unless UM sucks". I said we can win more recruiting battles against them when they suck.

I want to beat the best. I just don't care that UM is not among the best. I actually enjoy it when they suck.

I didn't agree or disagree with your premise that it would be even better if MSU were a top five program while UM was also good. I basically said that I don't want them to be good and I just prefer them to be lousy and MSU stay great. If MSU is great, it is not important for UM to return to the days of six total program Rose Bowl victories. I don't even want them to get a sniff.

I know Ann Arbor will not fade away. I didn't say they would. I know they will be elite again someday. That day will come sooner than I want. I prefer to not root for it to happen as earlier than it has to. I prefer to root for whoever is playing Ann Arbor this week and next week and forever.

I'm not mad about about UM's moles in the media. I just enjoy that they are powerless to help them win games. I enjoy that Minnesota is the biggest game their schedule right now. I just prefer they suck for so long that some of the illusion and mystique wears off and fades away. I'm not saying it will happen, but I see no need to root for them to regain prominence.

To me it's a waste of time to hope UM gets better. I find it enjoyable that their "championship hopes" are dashed before the conference schedule even begins. I am way more concerned about my favorite team. I don't see any need to root for our arrogant rivals who project a false image about what Michigan really is. I'm not suggesting we can control perceptions about other programs. I'll take the 15 undefeated seasons for MSU as you suggested. If UM were to miss a bowl game for those 15 years it would be even better.

It's simple. You want them to be better because you think it somehow benefits MSU. I want them to suck because if MSU keeps winning, we won't need them for anything.

[I love seeing articles about the fall-out in Ann Arbor like THIS.]


Insert From "SpartanMan82"
I am very entertained by the psychodrama that is now Michigan Football. I have been enjoying all of the bridge-jumping by chUMps of all shapes and sizes the past few weeks, especially since the Utah game. It has been a very pleasant experience to watch them flounder about aimlessly this season, thrashing each other more than they have done to their opponents.

The only complaint I have is all this stuff that the Mainstream Michigan Media Machine (M-4) is trying to pump out about the B1G Conference "needing UM to do well". Why not Illinois, the home of Red Grange? Why not Purdue, the former cradle-of-quarterbacks? Why not Minnesota, the thundering herd of the 1930's and 1940's? What about Nebraska, one of the historically greatest programs in college football history? Why is it that the B1G Conference does not seem to need those schools to do well?

Only Michigan counts to the M-4. The claims that the conference "needs them" are pure bunk written by chUMps and the folks who are paid by them to push their propaganda.

A-Town is certainly right that on a national perspective, the conference would benefit from UM avoiding their own self-immolation. But that's only because people have been trained to expect to see them succeed. People can be re-trained. Any other conference program that rises to the top - - - including MSU - - - will eventually be noticed by fans and recognized by the sports media as relevant.

I always remember that George Perles said "they all count one". That means losses as well as wins. Those chUMps only have two losses right now, and I'm the guy pointing out they could still go 10-2. But they are peeing all over themselves right now, and it's a great sight to see!

_____________________________________

Other Comments in the thread:

GruffSpartyisBestSparty
I would rather see a ranked IU than UM. Heck any team for that matter. The [Big Ten] does not revolve around um no matter what their history is, or what their fans desire. The [Big Ten] needs stronger teams, but they DON'T have to be UM. Now is it as fun beating up a team like UM when they appear to be whimpering on the ground? Not really...but the narrative the [Big Ten] is hinging on UM is a joke. Far more teams need to step up than just them.

RosesAreGreen
Crush their nuts.


RosesAreGreen
Spartan fans urged to contribute. Http://www.savebradyhoke.com


Boognish Rising
Count me in on the "let 'em drown" side of this argument.

Army. Pittsburgh. Minnesota. Cal. What do these teams have in common? If you go back far enough, each were once college football powers -winning multiple national titles. Eventually, they faded, and programs such as UM, ND, OSU, and Bama stepped up. To date they still play second fiddle to other programs.

The point is that times change - football programs change - and some never regain the success they once enjoyed, allowing a new guard to take over. I don't see any reason why that can't happen at Michigan. People just assume that the day will come when they will again be relevant, because, hey, they ARE Michigan after all……. right?

The mediocrity has already spanned close to a decade. Another 5 years of mediocrity may very well spell the death of the UM "Brand", as the future players of tomorrow will have grown up knowing UM as nothing other than a middle of the pack B1G team.


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A-TOWN ON SPARTAN FOOTBALL

You can follow ATownAndDown at M-Live HERE

and on Twitter @TheATownAndDown

See Part 1 of this interview HERE.

See Part 2 of this interview HERE.

How do you think the quarterback position competition shook out this spring at MSU? How about UM?

I think Cook is MSU's QB and that is about the only position that is on stable ground in either program. For MSU's backup, I think Tyler O'Conner showed a lot. He made a few big throws and showed some ability to move the pocket and create with his legs. He showed some youthful mistakes and was inconsistent at times but with time he will be a solid option under center. Terry showed why he garnered the hype. Quick feet and a quick release looked pretty impressive. He too made some youthful mistakes including the hit he took from Cooper. He stepped up into the pocket nicely to avoid the pressure but he took his eye off where he was stepping. Should have bolted or gone down in that situation to avoid the big hit. In the end, I think O'Conner is the backup but Terry gets more playing time (as long as Cook stays healthy).

As for U of M, I didn't see their Spring Game but I have seen enough of the coverage to know that Gardner was not impressive. I also heard that Shane Morris was not overwhelming either this Spring. And actually the guy that caught most folks eye was true freshman Wilton Speight. In my opinion, Brady Hoke is coaching for his job at this point. If Gardner can't find the level of consistency that is needed to win some big games for U of M this year, I expect to see the QB carousel in full swing. You might even see him try to run with Speight at least to make the argument that he finally found his QB and if he can get one more year with Speight he will return U of M to the top of the B1G.

Is there any reason to believe that Damion Terry might not be patient enough to wait until Connor Cook graduates? How do you think Dantonio will keep him sharp, hungry and ready while he waits?

I think Damion Terry will be more than patient. To begin with when he committed to MSU back in April of 2012, he knew that Maxwell and Cook were on the roster and that Tyler O'Connor would be joining them that coming summer. It is not news to Terry that he isn't going to be the starter this year. That is not how MSU recruits guys and so he knew the score coming in. Second, we have seen some very mature quotes from Terry that he knows his place on the team. While he would love to be playing and wants to contribute, he doesn't strike me as a guy that is going to jump ship because his ego tells him he should be the starter. Finally, from what I have heard, Terry views O'Connor as his competition. I don't think a guy that sets his goal to be the back up this year as a guy that leaves because he isn't the starter.

As for playing time, I think you got to see some interesting things the coaches did with Terry during the Spring Game. Things that confused the defense. I don't know if you will see MSU opening up games with Terry running the ball, but I would not be surprised to see packages where Terry is in the game with and without Cook. Remember how many times we dialed up those stupid Wildcat packages last season. What if you had Terry taking those snaps instead of Langford.

Any word on what went down with Max Bullough? How do you think MSU and Max handled the aftermath of the suspension?

I am not going to speculate on what Max did. I believe whatever it was the punishment he endured was enough. The Bullough family is as close to football royalty as you can get in any program. For Max to miss out on the game that he did had to be ridiculously difficult on him. I am also not in the camp that thinks that Max owes the fans an explanation of what he did. In my opinion it doesn't matter if it was drugs, booze, PED's, a fight, missed a team meeting, violation of an undisclosed team rule, or whatever. Whatever it was, it warranted the suspension and its done. Anyone demanding an explanation has some kind of TMZ obsessed curiosity. Whatever he did should not change your opinion of the guy and what is done is done at this point.

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A-TOWN ON SPARTAN BASKETBALL

You can follow ATownAndDown at M-Live HERE 

and on Twitter @TheATownAndDown

How will the loss of key players impact MSU and UM men's basketball comparatively over the next 1-2 years?

I don't think the loss of players will impact these teams too much in the near future. For MSU, you knew AP and Appling were gone and if you doubted that Harris was going, then you were kidding yourself. Izzo knew what he was going to be dealing with in 2014-15 and beyond. While we can sit here and debate holes in the team (because there is no debate that it's not as intimidating as last years squad) I think Izzo has a plan and has yet to truly disappoint us.

As for U of M, Beilein is no dummy and I would guess that he knew bringing in guys like GRIII and McGary might mean they would have short careers in Ann Arbor. With the way Stauskas came on this year, I would assume that Beilein saw the potential for that development and the potential that he would be gone too. With guys like Walton and Irvin going into the offseason where you see a lot of players take a big step and a guy like Chatman coming in, while U of M won't be terribly strong in the post, Beilein should be strong at key positions that his successful teams have been strong at.

Who do you see as early departure candidates for MSU and UM in the future?

At this point, I don't know if I can name anyone player that would leave early for the NBA for either team. I think both teams have a lot of solid basketball players on their team and any one of them can take a big step forward to the point they can't help but go pro. Freshman are nearly impossible to predict because none are really seen as one and doners. But then again, I don't think I would have said that Stauskas would leave at this time last year and that guy took a big enough step that he might be a lottery pick.

How many years will Tom Izzo remain as MSU Head Coach? (A-Town answered this question prior to recent reports of Tom Izzo remaining at MSU.)

Tom Izzo will turn 60 during next season. I think his future will take one of three potential paths.

The first is he will win another NCAA Championship and then his days at MSU will be numbered (either leave for the NBA or just won't have the drive to amp it back up soon after that). The second path would be that an NBA job comes along that is the "right situation" for him and he has to take his shot. The final path is that he takes the program on a course that he gains the most joy out of coaching and just hands over the reigns to someone else when he is done having fun. Its tough to see a time table on anyone of those scenarios.

I guess one could argue that he is on the third path right now with the way his recruiting class has gone this year and with guys like Trice and Valentine leading the team now. Any way it plays out, Izzo has been a great coach and an even better asset to MSU. Any day beyond today is a bonus if you ask me.

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Questions coming in future articles:

• Is it your understanding that the Branden Dawson hand-vs-table incident occurred during a coach/player team "intervention" aimed at getting Dawson to bring his game up during the first Michigan week?
• What's your opinion of the way the (so-called) "new foul rules" impacted the college basketball season?
• Any word on what went down with Max Bullough? How do you think MSU and Max handled the aftermath of the suspension?
• How do you think the quarterback position competition shook out this spring at MSU? How about UM?
• Is there any reason to believe that Damion Terry might not be patient enough to wait until Connor Cook graduates? How do you think Dantonio will keep him sharp, hungry and ready while he waits?
• What is your take on MSU's recruiting in football and men's basketball?

----------

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MSU Hoops Pick and Roll: Inaugural Edition

INAUGURAL EDITION
Our feature on MSU BASKETBALL brings diverse responses to
a variety of questions related to the Spartans program. 

Pick & Roll will be published periodically during the season and weekly through post season action.

Our Panelists:

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)

SpartanMan82 (Check out SM82's Basketball Posts)

This Week's Questions:

1. Is Tom Izzo about to pop a vein in his neck, or what? Explain what we're seeing with all of the ferocious intensity from our favorite Coach.

2. The Spartans seem to be sputtering at times, yet they are matching long-standing team records and setting new ones almost every game. Will this team live up to its highest expectations?

3. Quick guess, who leaves early from MSU after this year?

Panelist Responses:

1. Is Tom Izzo about to pop a vein in his neck, or what? Explain what we're seeing with all of the ferocious intensity from our favorite Coach.

SpartanMan82 (Check out SM82's Basketball Posts)
I think people are making too big of a deal out of it. I know some people are revolted to see what they believe is a repugnant image, but I'm still seeing it as an aberration largely specific to Valentine, who he's known since birth. When you recruit a player as an assistant coach, then recruit his sons, the coach/player relationship is a little different. I don't think any of us can truly know how it's different, or how it feels to be different in that way, or any of it. Denzel's brother sits right behind the bench, and his Dad stepped down from high school coaching (after two consecutive state championships) largely to pay attention to his son at MSU. So I'm sure everybody in the Valentine/Izzo camp is on track with everything.

We can speculate as amateur psychologists about the motivations and fears of Tom Izzo, and how they all translate into what we've seen him like lately. Or we can just let it ride, likely to not see much of that exact same stuff again, for a variety of reasons. I choose to let it ride.

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)
I think Izzo's intensity comes from two places: frustration and motivation. This year's team plays a lot like a really good NBA team will. Those teams that seem to "turn it on" whenever they want to. The problem is they are not always on and almost seem like they are not in it. Then they turn it on and go for an 18-3 run. I think Izzo knows he has something special here with this group and the fact that they let teams hang around or they try to coast to wins, instead of coming out and just dominating the competition is frustrating (add in the injuries and lineup juggling and you have one frustrated coach). At the same time he doesn't want this team to fall too far into the trap thinking they can just go at anytime. We saw it against OSU. With 8 minutes to go they were in chill mode and when they tried to turn it on around 3 minutes, it wasn't there. He is pushing these guys as much as he can so they don't fall asleep at the wheel.

As Posted by Return2Glory on M-Live: return2glory | SpartanResource.com
Izzo has such a high balance in his emotional bank account with each player that it allows him take withdrawals and not get into the red (overdrawn). He makes so many deposits into their emotional bank account the withdrawals hardly matter.

Reader Response: kmak
That's a good way to put it. Many are missing the whole picture. Where were all the nay-sayers when Izzo was out giving Green an unbridled bear hug on the court after a play well-done? These kids know Izzo has there backs. We may see him yell and walk away, but what we don't always see is the compassionate conversation he takes the time to have in the locker room with his players after the game and give them a pat on the back or sometimes a bear hug.

____________________________________________

2. The Spartans seem to be sputtering at times, yet they are matching long-standing team records and setting new ones almost every game. Will this team live up to its highest expectations?

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)
So much can go off kilter in college basketball. Come Tourney time, one loss means you are done. This team has the goods. It seemed like MSU always has a good balance where their are 2-3 guys that can push that 20 point area in any game and then there are a few others that don't surprise in double figures. This year Appling, Payne, or Harris can push 30 any given night. Dawson, Valentine, Trice and Kaminski have all scored 15 or more points in games this year. This team is a Championship caliber team. Its crazy to think about the injuries and bad breaks this group has gotten and they are still 17-1. Only 3 players have played in all 18 contests this year: Appling, Valentine and Schilling. And guys like Costello, Payne, Harris, Dawson and Trice have battled through illness or injury in a few of those contests they were in. If the team can get healthy and Izzo can do what Izzo seems to always do, this team is scary.

SpartanMan82 (Check out SM82's Basketball Posts)
They are certainly in position for everything other than the undefeated season. But the "highest expectation" is the National Championship, and those can no more be guaranteed in January than they can in March. So we'll have to see about that.

But most of the "sputtering" appears to have been part of the annual process of re-creating a new team. To have only one loss, and none in the conference after five games, puts MSU in the driver's seat as the other teams all play begin to each other.

If the Payne-to-Gain process pays dividends with a truly healthy player before too long, everything else seems to be falling into place for a strong February and beyond. The Costello mono-thing should gradually dissipate, as he first sat out for it six weeks ago. Harris seems quite functional and reports that his ankle is better every day. The injuries to Appling by definition will take time, but with time they will heal, as they are not chronic or stress-induced. (Appling suffered impact bruises to one side of his body from a fall he took on December 4.) In the meantime, other players are stepping in and trying to step up. If everybody is healthy and the team is at full strength when the finish-line starts coming into view, this team could reach any or all of its goals.

_________________________________________________

3. Quick guess, who leaves early from MSU after this year?

SpartanMan82 (Check out SM82's Basketball Posts)
Everybody has been counting Harris as definitely gone, and understandably so, based on his apparent draft-rank status last year. But he hasn't been packing the stats recently, and I heard Jim Comparoni say that he "may" return, so I'll put Harris at 80% gone.

I've had my doubts about Dawson leaving early for some time, and his performance package doesn't look so darn draft-able right now. I'm guessing he stays, and I'm up to around 70% on that right now. There is still time for him to "make a run" with a mid-season uptick like Payne made last year. But he's on track to stay for his senior season.

If Dawson stays, gains motivation and focus like we've seen Payne do, and benefits from the increased freedom of his Senior year, MSU could remain a viable team next year. (It will be a tough comedown even with him, but without him, much harder.)

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)
Harris. And even that might not be the best decision. Really this question should be "do you think either BJ or Harris will leave?" Harris is still highly regarded but he is going to slip a bit because this is now the second year that he has had injury issues. He also might slip a little more because he has had a propensity to disappear at times. Now that could be injury related but it doesn't help that outside of Valentine he has the lowest shooting percentage on the team of the guys in the regular rotation. He has also fallen in love with his outside shot. He is on pace to shoot as many 3's as he did last year within the next 7 games. And he is hitting over 10% less of those attempts. For a guy who is supposed to be a scorer, he is not having a strong showing this season.

BJ is improved over last year but he needs to experience a revolution to be catching any NBA eyes. Even if he does that he might be in the AP boat and better off coming back for a senior year. BJ has still has a tendency to not play 100% all the time. We have seen Izzo sit him because of his effort this year. And while BJ has shown some improvement in his offensive game he is not NBA ready. The guy is 6-6, 225 lbs. That makes him a 2 in the NBA and no one is putting a guy on their team that is a shooting guard that can't (or won't) put up the long ball. Even if you wanted him to be your 3, that is an issue because that swing spot has become the gold standard for the position you build around. Guys like LeBron, Durant, George and Carmelo, all are 3's. BJ can leap with those guys but he doesn't have the jumper or ability to create enough for himself for any team to see him as anything more than a bench guy.

So I think they should both stay but I think Harris is a strong lean toward leaving. NBA teams still draft based on what a guy could be, and not what he is, so someone with big dreams for what Harris could be will jump on him early and that is what you want as a player.

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VIDEO - MSU FOOTBALL FRONT BURNER: Beyond the Rose Bowl, Part 2 and Video Highlights

ROSE BOWL CHAMPIONS EDITION
Our weekly feature on MSU Football brings diverse responses to
a variety of questions related to the Spartans program. 

Front-Burner was published in three parts between the B1G Championship and the Rose Bowl

Part 1. B1G Championship Game Discussion
Part 2. MSU 2013 Season Discussion
           2A. ATownAndDown Feature
           2B. MSUSpartan76 Feature
Part 3. Rose Bowl Discussion
           3A. Pre-Game Discusison
           3B. The Game/Results - Beyond the Rose Bowl Part 1
           3C. Beyond the Rose Bowl Part 2  (This Edition)

Panelists:

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)

MSUSpartan76 (Follow '76 on M-Live)
SpartanMan82 (Check out all of SM82's posts)

Note: This will be the final weekly Front Burner edition. Others will follow as new developments related tot the football team dictate.

First let's take a look at the Rose Bowl and celebration highlights.



__________________________________________

1. MSU has finished as a finalist in high profile recruiting battles frequently in recent years. Should we expect to win those battles more regularly immediately, or will MSU need a validation season in 2014 before Dantonio lands more plan A recruits resulting in top 20 recruiting classes?

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)
Recruiting is improving. There won't be a sudden jump if you ask me. Coach D has already said the pitch is going to remain the same and that is going to turn off some recruits. There are many recruits that view college football as a transitional league and want to hear what a program and coach are going to do for them to get them to the NFL. That is not what Coach D will ever push. He is going to tell guys how its going to be and what is expected of them at MSU. Some recruits will be smart enough to see the results of having that lunchbox mentality (Coach D has put 24 players in the NFL and with guys like Dennard, Bullough, Lewis, Allen, Fou, etc. that list will grow longer soon) but others want to hear the coach tell them that getting them ready for the NFL is his goal. But you are already seeing bigger recruits looking a little harder at MSU and some of the prognosticators are shifting their speculations toward MSU because of that.

MSUSpartan76 (Follow '76 on M-Live)
Elsworth was a walk-on. How many star players has MSU produced from the ranks of the recruiting site 2-stars and unrated?

What we should expect is the MSU Spartan Football coaching staff to continue to stuff the roster with kids that fit the program, can be developed, who are willing to put in the work, who play as a team, and who never quit. We need and want those players that fit: Spartans Will!

We do not need chUMps as role models. We do not need to polish recruiting trophies. Those so-called recruiting "battles" are just hype created by the recruiting sites and spoon fed to the fans. MSU needs no validation. The only true validation comes with "Just Win."

SpartanMan82 (Check out chUMp of the Month Winners)
The recruiting situation is already improving. Nothing is certain until LOIs are signed, but getting a verbal from the top player in Pennsylvania last month was a sign of things to come. There is only room for a few more players in the 2014 Class, but it looks like MSU is bidding for some big names to add before signing day in February.

Much has been made of how well Mark Dantonio has done with "lower-tier" recruits, but that success doesn't mean that he only wants 2-star players. He will be going after "higher-tier" recruits for the 2015 Class, and we should see results of those recruiting efforts during the next eight months. I expect next year's group to finish in the Top 20, perhaps Top 15 or better.

Meanwhile, the 2014 Class is ranked around #35 in the country right now, but every time Dantonio is asked about them, he says it's a great group. As long as Dantonio gets who he wants, it won't matter how many stars they have coming out of high school.

__________________________________________

2. What do you think will be the most intriguing stories in the off-season?

MSUSpartan76 (Follow '76 on M-Live)
Easy. How are the fans going to handle the coaching decisions related to Damion Terry and Connor Cook. Where will Tyler O'Conner fit into the scheme of things.

One other story: Will Desmond Howard actually get a clue?

SpartanMan82 (Check out This Date in chUMp History)

Damion Terry still seems to be a more talented quarterback than Connor Cook, yet Cook has two years experience ahead of him. Will Terry be given a fair chance at the job? If not, will he get to play in non-garbage-time situations? Tyler Hoover guarantees it.

What happens with Don Treadwell? If Narduzzi stays with us, will there be a place for Treadwell on the staff?

What will Mark Hollis do about the perceived "problem" with the student section in Spartan Stadium? Several simple answers are available, and Hollis is more than competent enough to choose one of the solutions to the "problem". Will he fix it?

How do the coaches divide playing time between Jeremy Langford and the other viable running back candidates on the team now and those who will be arriving later this year? Langford will be a Senior, and we don't want a repeat of the LeVeon Bell show from last year, with one running back monopolizing all of the carries for a full season.

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)
Player development is what I am most intrigued with. Defense will have a ton of talent but there will be holes to fill. Guys like Harris, Davis, LT, Clemons, Bullough, Hicks, Robinson, Edmundson, Jones, Reschke, etc. are all going to be given their opportunities to step up. It will be exciting to see what they do with those opportunities. But even on the offensive side of the ball guys like Holmes, Troup, Madaris, Arnett, Chmura, and even Shelton have showed some flashes. Can any of them step up and rock the boat? Do the starters up their game because of that competition?

Other storylines to watch: Where does Terry shake out and does Coach D go live with the QB's again? Where do guys like Williams and Lyles end up? Does Fowler petition for a 6th year? Potential transfers?

__________________________________________

3. How many losses will be too many for David Brandon to keep the Hokester at the Helm in Ann Arbor? MythAgain plays Notre Dame, Ohio STATE and MSU away from the Pig House. Will Hoke win enough games in 2014 to keep his job?

SpartanMan82 (Check out chUMp Satire)

A five-loss season would be very hard for Hoke to survive, but get ready for his resurrection early in the year. Michigan could again be 6-1, if not 7-0, before the bottom falls out next season. He really needs 10 wins to settle down that fan-base, but he won't get that many.

My guess is that Michigan will finish 8-4 next year, with multiple camps operating behind the scenes regarding the coach situation. If he wins his bowl game, he stays. If he loses his bowl game, he's gone.

ATownAndDown (Follow A-Town on M-Live)
No clue about if or what it will take for Hoke to keep his job. I have been perplexed by that situation with how the U of M fan base revolted against RichRod who was trending back toward a successful program but they are much more patient with Hoke who was his most successful off what RichRod built and has regressed since then.

I think Dave Brandon needs to worry about his own job. Michigan fans are getting tired of a lot of the business decisions being made regarding the program. Ticket prices are going up again and the home schedule for U of M is App St., Miami (OH), Utah, Minn, PSU, Ind, and Maryland. Also in talking to a few Michigan Men, they are not happy about the App St game being scheduled. While they understand the business side of it (should be an easy win but it will still drum up publicity) the publicity will be negative and remind fans of a very dark day in U of M football. Factor in that he is paying his coaching staff an exorbitant amount of money for the results they are getting and he seems to be putting very little pressure on them to change things up. I have even heard rumors that U of M might struggle to clear 100K in the stands at a couple of those poor games early games. How long do the powers that be at U of M allow their crown jewel to not sparkle?

MSUSpartan76 (Follow '76 on M-Live)
Who cares? This question, like the team it references, is totally irrelevant.
   Ok, so I suppose I have to give some kind of answer. Here goes. If Coach Choke stops serving donuts and starts serving Dominos Pizza, David "Avoid the Noid" Brandon will keep him for decades.

MSU does not measure its success by whatever happens with the Ann Arbor Charm School football club. Let's leave that to the chUMps to fret over.

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